So let's say we get UBL in custody. We know he'd have direct knowledge of future terrorist actions; ones that could kill thousands of civilians. What do we allow the interrogators do? Do we allow them to put UBL in a dress and take pictures of him? Do we surround him with dead pigs? Do we strip him and have a woman soldier give him a "thumbs up"? Do we threaten to post those pictures on the internet for the whole world to see? What do we do to get that information?
Just asking.
Posted by Tim at May 13, 2004 07:43 AMclassify him as an enemy combatant, then do what ever we want.
Posted by: StarkTruth at May 13, 2004 08:10 AMBring him to the pitchers' mound at Yankee Stadium, sell tickets, then unhandcuff him. If he can make it to the parking lot alive, he can go. (yeah. right. as if...)
Posted by: mhking at May 13, 2004 08:40 AMAll of those ideas sound very demeaning and harmful to UBL's pride. Therefore, I guess we would just have to resort to tickeling him into submission.
Unless, of course, that too is against the Geneva Convention.
Posted by: Ryan at May 13, 2004 11:19 AMThe whole point about the rule of law is that it must apply to everyone however much we might wish it didnt.
What would Jesus do?
Posted by: Tom at May 13, 2004 06:50 PMp.s.---yeah, I'm dead serious.
Posted by: Tom at May 13, 2004 06:53 PMMake OBL do the perp walk in pink flowered pajamas and bunny slippers. I am so tired of hearing about how Arabs consider dignity above all else. I could actually tolerate it as an amusing quirk if they didn't feel the need to kill Americans to feed their dignity.
What would Jesus do? It seems to have pretty much confirmed throughout history that the turning the other cheek bit doesn't apply when one nation or group seeks to exterminate another. The Jews defended themselves in the book of Esther. One doesn't really think of Samuel as a hacking and slashing kind of guy, but he hacked Agag, the king of the Amalekites to pieces. The Amalekites tried to exterminate the Israelites as the journeyed to the promised land. D. James Kennedy said that Haman, the man behind the plot to exterminate the Jews in Esther, was a descendant of Amalekites. Haman ended up being hung. What would Jesus do? I don't fully know, but I believe he'd be ok with killing the leader of the group that wants to kill us. I've just given you two instances as to why that might be so.
Posted by: Douglas at May 13, 2004 08:48 PMI find it hard to believe Jesus would hack up UBL or hang him. Is that what he or his followers to do with the Romans or the Jewish leadership acted with deadly intent against him?
Maybe a pointless question, but it's something that crossed my mind on a blog with Christian roots. Though an agnostic I do often think about ethical or moral dilemmas with the WWJD approach.
Posted by: Tom at May 14, 2004 07:21 AMOne of the tenants of Christianity is that Jesus is fully man and fully God. We also believe that, in general, the Old Testament is recorded history. Given the actions of God in the OT (remember Passover?) it is impossible for any of us to speculate on WWJD. While on earth Jesus' purpose was not political but to die for us. This is an apples and oranges issue. I am not God nor is anyone else that is walking this earth. When Jesus was on earth He was God in the flesh.
Posted by: Tim at May 14, 2004 07:46 AMDon't worry, UBL will meet his maker, and it surely will not be God.
Posted by: StarkTruth at May 14, 2004 08:34 AMLook, are you really saying that you can't figure out what the Christian thing to do is in this particular situation, or in ANY situation??!! (re: "...it is impossible for any of us to speculate on WWJD....") Might the Commandments or Jesus' Beatitudes be a decent start how to handle the tough moral situation that Tim begin this discussion with?
I'll read your response, respect your religious sincerity, and with that respect I will try to make this is my last post on this subject. (Tim, please DELETE me if I can't shut up!!!!!!! :-) ) And sincerely, I do appreciate your thoughts and opinions. And want to hear your thoughts. I'm just more than a little puzzled. Maybe it's because my brain is burnt out by Friday?)
Posted by: Tom at May 14, 2004 07:32 PMTom,
Your challenges are valid and welcome. Your starting points (10's and B's) are excellent places to start. Where it gets difficult is the situations where you know you can prevent more tragedy by certain means. Check out Dietrich Bonhoeffer (a Christian), who tried to assassinate Hitler. What would I do or want my nation do to prevent tragedy? Quite a bit. Would I want my country to humiliate someone just for the purpose of humiliation? No. Would I want certain steps to be taken (remember we're talking UBL) to get info? Yes. I just don't know how far those should go.
Posted by: trogers at May 14, 2004 10:13 PMWWJD to UBL? Read Judges, two characters Ehud and Barak. Those obscure Bible characters have a contemporary manifestation. Next, read the story of Ehud Barak and how he dealt with the PLO terrorists who killed the Israeli Olympic team. He was directed in his mission by one of the Free World's great figures, Golda Meir.
The Sermon on the Mount is guidance for our personal relationships. Government is different. Look at King David. Look at Romans 13, Government does not bear the sword in vain.
Most often, when people say WWJD, they don't really care what Jesus wants. They just want to obfuscate. What would Bill Clinton do? Hide his head in the sand. Maybe that is what you really meant.
God bless President Bush
God bless America
Posted by: JoeS at May 16, 2004 08:07 PM
